1 00:00:13,550 --> 00:00:17,750 I don't feel that I'm here at this press conference as a star. If we have to put 2 00:00:17,750 --> 00:00:22,650 labels on me, I would prefer the first label to be human being, the second 3 00:00:22,650 --> 00:00:27,070 to be pacifist, and if we have to have a third, it can be folk singer. 4 00:00:28,470 --> 00:00:30,050 All men are false, 5 00:00:30,970 --> 00:00:33,810 says my mother. 6 00:00:35,710 --> 00:00:37,430 They'll tell you we're kids. 7 00:00:51,309 --> 00:00:57,530 When people expected something of me or saw me in a way I probably didn't see 8 00:00:57,530 --> 00:00:58,530 myself. 9 00:00:58,890 --> 00:01:04,190 My battle was, and in a way still is, how do I separate what they think I am 10 00:01:04,190 --> 00:01:07,970 from what I am or what I think I am? 11 00:01:08,170 --> 00:01:10,690 Because they probably don't have much to do with each other. 12 00:01:28,919 --> 00:01:32,140 And somebody says, oh, I feel as though I've known you all my life. 13 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,200 I know that it feels like that, and they don't know anything about me. 14 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:03,820 And I've decided to sleep alone all of 15 00:02:03,820 --> 00:02:05,780 my life. 16 00:02:22,860 --> 00:02:24,480 Good evening. 17 00:02:34,190 --> 00:02:37,550 Put on mighty mountains and gaze across the wilderness. 18 00:02:40,570 --> 00:02:45,430 Never seen a lion in the sand or a diamond in the dust. 19 00:02:46,110 --> 00:02:51,710 Most of my life, I look back on and I can't, I don't see how that ever really 20 00:02:51,710 --> 00:02:55,630 happened. Did that really happen? I would say that about most of my life. 21 00:02:57,250 --> 00:03:02,270 Even my money keeps telling me it's God I need to trust. 22 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:04,380 When I 23 00:03:04,380 --> 00:03:12,100 was 24 00:03:12,100 --> 00:03:14,160 young, we moved all the time. 25 00:03:14,820 --> 00:03:17,020 We didn't stay anywhere longer than four years. 26 00:03:18,300 --> 00:03:21,300 And when I was 17, we moved again. 27 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:26,380 My mother, my father, my sister drove across country to Cambridge. 28 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,460 I thought that my family was different. 29 00:03:34,119 --> 00:03:36,780 My mother was more beautiful than anybody else. 30 00:03:37,580 --> 00:03:39,820 My father was smarter than anybody else. 31 00:03:40,020 --> 00:03:41,960 And I guess that's a good way to grow up. 32 00:03:43,580 --> 00:03:47,380 And Pauline, older sister, was very, very shy. 33 00:03:47,700 --> 00:03:50,620 And then she kind of made it her way to be invisible. 34 00:03:51,740 --> 00:03:54,020 I was really, really close to Mimi. 35 00:03:55,160 --> 00:04:00,180 We sang together, and she would sing the most beautiful harmonies with me. 36 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:26,980 When you're in Cambridge, guys at Harvard fell in love with me and then 37 00:04:26,980 --> 00:04:29,020 fell in love with Mimi and they couldn't figure out who it was. 38 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,880 So we had them all over the house, which will help you learn songs really fast. 39 00:04:36,780 --> 00:04:42,660 And so when the folk music, boom, started to happen, I was right smack dab 40 00:04:42,660 --> 00:04:43,980 the middle of it in Harvard Square. 41 00:04:45,820 --> 00:04:47,320 I was just out of high school. 42 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,560 I had not been exposed to anything, and all of a sudden, blam. 43 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:57,260 And for me, it was the music. I mean, this guy sitting under a yellowish lamp 44 00:04:57,260 --> 00:04:58,760 playing Plaisir d 'Amour. 45 00:04:59,470 --> 00:05:02,030 And I think that was a gotcha. 46 00:05:10,210 --> 00:05:14,250 Coffee shops, the current underground, cool, hip and everything. 47 00:05:15,250 --> 00:05:18,850 The one that I ended up spending almost all my time was Club 47. 48 00:05:22,010 --> 00:05:27,590 It was in the merry month of May. 49 00:05:29,290 --> 00:05:35,650 When green buds all were swelling Sweet William 50 00:05:35,650 --> 00:05:42,630 on his deathbed lay For a love of 51 00:05:42,630 --> 00:05:49,590 Barbary Allen I just, you know, hung out there and flirted with guys and learned 52 00:05:49,590 --> 00:05:55,970 another two songs in a night and sang my set every Tuesday and Friday, I think 53 00:05:55,970 --> 00:05:56,970 it was. 54 00:06:12,229 --> 00:06:17,250 I pretended I was going to college for about half a year or something. I must 55 00:06:17,250 --> 00:06:20,070 have lasted about nine minutes in Boston University. 56 00:06:20,670 --> 00:06:26,510 I mean, it's exaggerating a little, but I was out after six weeks. I was out on 57 00:06:26,510 --> 00:06:29,470 the streets of Harvard Square in the snow learning folk songs. 58 00:06:36,490 --> 00:06:43,350 Young man, I think you're dying The ballads were 59 00:06:43,350 --> 00:06:46,430 unrequited love and they were beautiful. 60 00:06:47,870 --> 00:06:54,330 And love and death and beauty somehow are all tangled in there. Young as I 61 00:06:54,530 --> 00:07:00,550 I seemed to have a heart and soul full of the sadness that it took to be 62 00:07:00,550 --> 00:07:01,730 attracted to those songs. 63 00:07:02,090 --> 00:07:04,590 And almost only those songs. 64 00:07:05,580 --> 00:07:10,440 They were sad and long and beautiful. 65 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:12,620 And there I was. 66 00:07:15,100 --> 00:07:21,940 The first time I became aware of Joan Baez, we went to the 47 67 00:07:21,940 --> 00:07:26,380 Club. And there was this, I like to say, this older woman with long black hair. 68 00:07:27,050 --> 00:07:29,730 I just fell in love. I was smitten. I thought she was wonderful. 69 00:07:29,950 --> 00:07:33,930 I thought she was beautiful, and she didn't just strum the guitar. She finger 70 00:07:33,930 --> 00:07:35,490 -picked, and that impressed me a lot. 71 00:07:41,330 --> 00:07:43,530 She had a very unusual way of playing the guitar. 72 00:07:44,310 --> 00:07:50,990 I'd never heard anybody do it like Jenny did, and I tried to practice it, but I 73 00:07:50,990 --> 00:07:53,550 couldn't get that style down. 74 00:08:03,050 --> 00:08:07,930 My parents had got me some Sears and Roebuck guitar, and I spent all of my 75 00:08:07,930 --> 00:08:12,510 with it from now on out. In pictures of me with a guitar hanging down around my 76 00:08:12,510 --> 00:08:18,170 knees, because I didn't know that you could bring it up higher. I was just 77 00:08:18,170 --> 00:08:21,730 standing there looking like Elvis, because I didn't understand it. 78 00:08:23,250 --> 00:08:29,990 I took my guitar to school and 79 00:08:29,990 --> 00:08:31,910 sang at lunch hour. 80 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:33,400 I got a lot of attention. 81 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,179 I just wanted to be liked like everybody else in the world. 82 00:08:38,039 --> 00:08:41,740 Even if it was kind of a court jester role, it was attention. 83 00:08:42,299 --> 00:08:44,280 And so I liked it. 84 00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:53,360 I had my little bedside radio that was on as much of the night as I could leave 85 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,760 it on before my mother came and told me to turn it off. 86 00:08:58,100 --> 00:09:00,560 It was rhythm and blues all the way. 87 00:09:01,330 --> 00:09:06,150 anything that had three or four chords, and I could play most of them. 88 00:09:06,410 --> 00:09:11,430 There were two kinds of songs where I lived and in my repertoire. 89 00:09:12,490 --> 00:09:16,230 There were the good ones, and then there were the evil ones. 90 00:09:17,390 --> 00:09:21,390 Of course, you know that I like the evil ones better. The trouble was, I didn't 91 00:09:21,390 --> 00:09:22,610 understand why they were evil. 92 00:09:23,210 --> 00:09:24,210 Like, well, 93 00:09:24,930 --> 00:09:29,050 you're the cutest thing that I did ever see. 94 00:09:29,850 --> 00:09:36,530 I really love you, peach is gonna shake your tree, lovey -dovey. 95 00:09:36,630 --> 00:09:41,550 And I pictured the family out in the backyard shaking the peach tree, you 96 00:09:45,790 --> 00:09:52,410 I don't know why I loved rhythm and blues so much, but it was simple 97 00:09:52,410 --> 00:09:54,010 and the voices were sexy. 98 00:09:54,390 --> 00:09:57,350 It interested me. 99 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,720 way more than any of the white music that was being played. 100 00:10:04,020 --> 00:10:09,320 I don't know how I shifted from singing rhythm and blues to feeling so 101 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,100 absolutely at home with folk music. 102 00:10:26,310 --> 00:10:31,110 Harry Belafonte being the first album that came into the house that was folk 103 00:10:31,110 --> 00:10:32,110 music. 104 00:10:36,730 --> 00:10:39,090 And then moved towards Odetta. 105 00:10:40,150 --> 00:10:41,750 And Pete Seeger. 106 00:10:43,090 --> 00:10:44,510 And that was the beginning. 107 00:10:46,990 --> 00:10:50,970 There were a lot of very talented people trying to... 108 00:10:51,370 --> 00:10:55,510 you know, make a living as a folk singer in the little coffee houses and clubs 109 00:10:55,510 --> 00:10:56,830 that there were around them. 110 00:10:57,810 --> 00:10:58,810 Me included. 111 00:11:00,070 --> 00:11:02,030 Joan was just one of the best at it. 112 00:11:02,870 --> 00:11:08,830 She was extremely talented and knocked people off their feet. 113 00:11:24,220 --> 00:11:30,000 She had that heart -stopping soprano voice, just couldn't get it out of my 114 00:11:30,580 --> 00:11:35,080 And her range of songs was very unusual for that time. 115 00:11:35,860 --> 00:11:40,960 Just the combination of all the things she did, which were put together in such 116 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,020 a, seemed like some kind of miraculous way. 117 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,560 I was singing in these coffee shops and people were even going to pay me. 118 00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:02,060 But I wasn't particularly anybody. 119 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,280 And then very, very, very big deal for me. 120 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,740 The Newport Folk Festival, I was a guest for a couple of songs. 121 00:12:13,340 --> 00:12:17,340 And I don't know if I've ever been that terrified in my life. 122 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:22,140 I was standing off stage and my knees were shaking. I mean, literally, I knew 123 00:12:22,140 --> 00:12:24,920 where the expression came from. I couldn't get control of my knees. 124 00:12:25,580 --> 00:12:30,700 But then I walked out there, and it was wonderful. And I knew how wonderful it 125 00:12:30,700 --> 00:12:34,240 was because the audience, which is the largest audience in the history of the 126 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,600 world, 13 ,000 people, all cheered and yelled. 127 00:12:38,620 --> 00:12:40,460 It's all just, ow. 128 00:12:41,380 --> 00:12:46,600 And I enjoyed it. I loved it. It was a lot of attention, a lot. 129 00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:52,860 And then all of a sudden, I was folk queen, bingo, like that. 130 00:13:01,879 --> 00:13:05,540 In the early 60s, Joan Baez was the queen of folk music. 131 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,940 She was absolutely at the pinnacle. 132 00:13:12,780 --> 00:13:16,140 It's hard for people today to know how big Joan was. 133 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,040 She was on the cover of Time, and she was it. 134 00:13:27,900 --> 00:13:30,560 At the time, the folk scene was ideal. 135 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:35,380 It was full of wonderful, vibrant people who were contributing wonderful songs 136 00:13:35,380 --> 00:13:37,620 to it and wonderful performances. 137 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,200 It was the golden age of folk. 138 00:13:48,780 --> 00:13:52,240 Joanie was at the forefront of a new dynamic in American music. 139 00:13:53,390 --> 00:13:58,130 She had a record out circulating among the folk circles called, I think it was 140 00:13:58,130 --> 00:13:59,130 just called Don't Bias. 141 00:13:59,550 --> 00:14:05,250 And everybody was listening to it, me included. 142 00:14:05,550 --> 00:14:06,890 I listened to it a lot. 143 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:29,540 girl I knew that picked up a guitar when I was picking up a guitar was listening 144 00:14:29,540 --> 00:14:34,300 to John Baez records and they were very very very big records but the first two 145 00:14:34,300 --> 00:14:38,740 were gold albums which was almost unheard of for a folk music LP to sell 146 00:14:38,740 --> 00:14:45,440 many copies my first album came out I remember thinking oh 147 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:51,430 boy this is sort of fun watching it come into the top 40 or something and I had 148 00:14:51,430 --> 00:14:54,310 never followed music. I didn't know the lingo. 149 00:14:54,950 --> 00:15:01,550 The first time I saw Baez sings S -R -O, Town Hall, New York. S -R -O, 150 00:15:01,750 --> 00:15:04,090 S -R -O. That must mean sold right out. 151 00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:06,910 Standing room only. 152 00:15:07,150 --> 00:15:10,830 Sold right out. That made sense to me. I didn't know all that stuff. 153 00:15:23,820 --> 00:15:27,640 After things started to really move for me, I got very excited and more 154 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:28,640 frightened. 155 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,460 I was afraid of what would happen to me if I got caught up in the machine of 156 00:15:34,460 --> 00:15:35,640 commercialism. 157 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:43,820 I found it very important to not be burdened with any bigger an ego than I 158 00:15:43,820 --> 00:15:44,820 already had. 159 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:53,000 How do you deal with all of that struggle to remain just the person? 160 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,160 while all this stuff is going on around you? 161 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,980 Time magazine asked me if they wanted to do a cover story. 162 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:07,180 And something in me said, ugh, how ghastly. But something in me said, how 163 00:16:07,180 --> 00:16:09,260 irresistible to be on the cover of Time magazine. 164 00:16:09,660 --> 00:16:13,120 And I try to think whether there's anybody in the world I knew who didn't 165 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,900 that in them, who would sort of like to be on the cover of Time magazine. And I 166 00:16:16,900 --> 00:16:17,900 couldn't think of anybody. 167 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:19,980 I may be wrong because I may be just projecting. 168 00:16:21,870 --> 00:16:27,250 But I think that there's sort of irresistible thoughts about it. What 169 00:16:27,250 --> 00:16:30,390 actually is, I don't really know because I don't consider myself famous. 170 00:16:30,630 --> 00:16:33,010 I think there's a difference in being well -known and being famous. 171 00:16:33,350 --> 00:16:37,550 I guess one of my ways of dealing with it was by not admitting that it was 172 00:16:37,550 --> 00:16:40,650 on. I think it was still too overwhelming for me. 173 00:16:45,890 --> 00:16:49,570 In the beginning, there wasn't really much of a stage persona. 174 00:16:50,860 --> 00:16:56,920 It was just me scared stiff and having just horrendous stage fright. 175 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:03,420 I would go out and sing a few songs, and walking and holding my guitar, 176 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,839 sometimes it was almost like walking to an execution. 177 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:16,960 Usually during the first or second song, that feeling would abate, and then I 178 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:17,960 would just sing. 179 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:42,900 I was so dysfunctional in so many ways that I couldn't leave home. 180 00:17:44,380 --> 00:17:49,380 There would be mornings when I was so terrified of leaving the house that as I 181 00:17:49,380 --> 00:17:54,160 walked towards the door, my stomach would turn into this big knot, and I'd 182 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,080 into a sweat, and I'd feel nauseated. 183 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:02,120 If I turned around and faced the fireplace and my mom, it would go away. 184 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:05,380 We're talking about panic attacks. 185 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:15,740 Once in a while, in the middle of a concert, it would hit. That was really 186 00:18:15,740 --> 00:18:20,850 awful. But the curious thing is, I could leave the stage, which I would do, And 187 00:18:20,850 --> 00:18:25,290 I'd say, excuse me, I'll be right back. In the middle of the song, I go 188 00:18:25,290 --> 00:18:30,730 backstage and splash cold water over my face and cry and carry on for maybe five 189 00:18:30,730 --> 00:18:35,750 minutes. I walk back out on the stage and pick up the song, the note that I'd 190 00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:36,729 been on. 191 00:18:36,730 --> 00:18:40,170 Nobody ever said anything because they don't want you to be sick. 192 00:18:40,450 --> 00:18:44,710 They don't want anything to be wrong, so they'd be happy to ignore the whole 193 00:18:44,710 --> 00:18:45,710 thing. 194 00:18:45,930 --> 00:18:50,470 My little sister Mimi was absolutely wonderful with me. I mean, she would 195 00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:55,170 sit with me, and she knew what words to say to make it better, and she was 196 00:18:55,170 --> 00:18:56,790 totally sympathetic. 197 00:18:58,750 --> 00:19:04,190 I battled that for years, and nobody ever knew it. 198 00:19:15,470 --> 00:19:16,470 Ooh. 199 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:53,700 When I first went into the Deep South, I gave these concerts, were all attended 200 00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:59,040 by whites only, of course, and then discovered that it was a whites only in 201 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,700 contract, which, of course, I went and did one of my little temper tantrums 202 00:20:02,700 --> 00:20:05,160 about it, because I didn't know, nobody told me. 203 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,800 And then the second time, we changed the contract. 204 00:20:09,900 --> 00:20:14,180 You still had to recruit the black folk to come to the concert, but we did. 205 00:20:23,590 --> 00:20:27,210 I'm sitting on the bathroom floor of Holiday Inn in Mississippi. 206 00:20:28,690 --> 00:20:34,270 My whole reason for this tape is that the other side has songs that we did at 207 00:20:34,270 --> 00:20:35,590 Stillman College. 208 00:20:36,770 --> 00:20:39,690 And it was the most integrated audience so far. 209 00:20:40,330 --> 00:20:43,990 Oh boy, it was just really neat. They were just black and white, black and 210 00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:44,990 all over the place. 211 00:20:45,470 --> 00:20:47,790 I did five songs with a gospel choir. 212 00:20:48,710 --> 00:20:53,150 It's not the school's official choir, but just some leader type kid got this 213 00:20:53,150 --> 00:20:57,270 group together And so I said what do you know any freedom songs and I put down 214 00:20:57,270 --> 00:21:01,730 the guitar and I said how about Walking and talking with my mind on freedom 215 00:21:01,730 --> 00:21:09,310 Tuscaloosa 216 00:21:09,310 --> 00:21:14,990 was of course that the headquarters for the KKK the shocking reality was 217 00:21:14,990 --> 00:21:17,270 on this night 218 00:21:18,220 --> 00:21:20,040 I'm singing with Joan Baez. 219 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:27,400 Tomorrow, I've got to go down to the Tuscaloosa County Courthouse and decide 220 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:32,860 whether to drink from the white water fountain or the colored water fountain. 221 00:21:47,210 --> 00:21:50,530 Veteran civil rights workers in the South are calling the situation in 222 00:21:50,530 --> 00:21:54,950 one of the worst yet. But the white residents of Grenada, with the open 223 00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:59,470 of police, seem determined to continue their struggle by beating up anyone who 224 00:21:59,470 --> 00:22:02,930 gets in the way. Get the hell out of here. We don't need you. 225 00:22:08,430 --> 00:22:15,330 One has to appreciate in 1964, 5 and 6, we were living under state -sponsored 226 00:22:15,330 --> 00:22:20,520 terrorism. It would be illegal for a person of color to use a hotel or motel 227 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:21,520 our park. 228 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,540 And if whites and blacks were in the same car, you could be arrested. 229 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:33,220 In that setting, which was hostile and dangerous, that was shown 230 00:22:33,220 --> 00:22:34,220 by us. 231 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:41,600 If you're committed to singing meaningful songs, you also have to be 232 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,440 to leading a life that backs that up. 233 00:22:49,100 --> 00:22:50,980 In Grenada, Mississippi, Dr. 234 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,040 King had asked if I would come in, kind of to stave things off until he got 235 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,800 there, because he couldn't get there in time, and the black kids trying to 236 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,760 integrate a school were having rocks and bricks thrown at them. 237 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,960 There are a lot of highway patrol around. Do you think things will be safe 238 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:06,960 the children? 239 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,480 You know, it's just a pity that it has to resort to that. 240 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,020 On the other hand, I would rather have highway patrols than nothing. And it did 241 00:23:16,020 --> 00:23:20,260 work. I was celebrity enough that they stopped throwing bricks because the 242 00:23:20,260 --> 00:23:23,440 was there. You're not expecting anything from any white bystanders, are you? 243 00:23:24,660 --> 00:23:25,660 No. 244 00:23:28,900 --> 00:23:30,980 You mean like getting run over, for instance? 245 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:39,960 Those of you who are integrating the schools of this community, you now 246 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,100 join the ranks. 247 00:23:42,410 --> 00:23:47,290 Of the youthful pioneers, blazing new paths, 248 00:23:47,450 --> 00:23:53,630 I want you to know that even though you are in Grenada, Mississippi, 249 00:23:54,110 --> 00:23:58,830 you have friends... I always cried when I heard him speak. 250 00:23:59,330 --> 00:24:03,310 It's so moving and so real. 251 00:24:03,750 --> 00:24:09,810 So you are a part of a courageous company of freedom lovers. 252 00:24:10,860 --> 00:24:16,460 moving on to make America a better nation and to make the American dream a 253 00:24:16,460 --> 00:24:17,460 reality. 254 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:24,160 When we were in smaller groups and I was there and he was speaking, he would 255 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,300 joke afterwards. He said, yeah, I threw the word nonviolence in there a couple 256 00:24:27,300 --> 00:24:32,160 of extra times because I know Sister Joan there really loves to hear that. 257 00:24:32,820 --> 00:24:37,260 Joan and Dr. King, I think it really was mutual admiration. 258 00:24:38,620 --> 00:24:39,620 Most hearted. 259 00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:45,240 protecting their careers, do it a bit away from the cutting edge of our 260 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:50,380 struggle, asking for their hot tea and their lemons and their fruit and all of 261 00:24:50,380 --> 00:24:56,780 the stuff you get performing on some stage. She came as a member of that 262 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:04,380 Please, dear God, go into the march, into the activities, and I'm with you 263 00:25:04,380 --> 00:25:09,020 as much as I possibly can be, but do it with nonviolence. Thank you. 264 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:19,120 To be realistic about nonviolent action, I got good news for you guys. It works 265 00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:21,320 pretty well, certainly compared to the other stuff. 266 00:25:21,700 --> 00:25:23,500 It works pretty well. 267 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:33,720 The only failure, worst of nonviolence as a 268 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,460 method of fighting has been violence. 269 00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:37,360 Complete flop. 270 00:25:46,990 --> 00:25:50,910 I'd heard the violence versus nonviolence discussion in households 271 00:25:50,910 --> 00:25:55,810 8. When I was 16 and I was in high school, we were going to have an air 272 00:25:55,810 --> 00:25:56,769 drill. 273 00:25:56,770 --> 00:26:01,010 And the siren was going to go off and all the kids were supposed to leave 274 00:26:01,010 --> 00:26:02,630 and go home. 275 00:26:03,530 --> 00:26:09,250 I thought I would stay in school just to protest the whole possibility that this 276 00:26:09,250 --> 00:26:11,910 made any sense at all in any way, and it didn't. 277 00:26:12,690 --> 00:26:16,410 I asked my father, and he helped me. 278 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,500 figure out how long it would take a missile to get from Moscow to Palo Alto 279 00:26:20,500 --> 00:26:24,540 School. And the whole thing really wasn't going to work, you know. The 280 00:26:24,540 --> 00:26:27,540 would not have time to come and pick up their children and take them to the bomb 281 00:26:27,540 --> 00:26:28,540 shelters and so on. 282 00:26:33,300 --> 00:26:38,560 I was in French class, and I started explaining to them why I was staying in 283 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:39,980 school, and it was a protest. 284 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,960 And they were just scratching their heads. I mean, nobody had thought about 285 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:50,410 this. So I guess I knew already that I was on the road to success with at least 286 00:26:50,410 --> 00:26:52,750 getting people to discuss the issue. 287 00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:57,290 It was reported the next day in the papers. 288 00:26:57,550 --> 00:27:01,710 And the day after that, there were the letters to the editors about this 289 00:27:01,710 --> 00:27:05,550 dangerous girl in that high school, and I was a communist, and they better keep 290 00:27:05,550 --> 00:27:10,670 their kids away from me. And it was so fast and so shocking, really. 291 00:27:10,910 --> 00:27:12,850 And I had full support of my family. 292 00:27:13,870 --> 00:27:16,010 My father was a pacifist. 293 00:27:17,970 --> 00:27:24,290 He had been doing research for the military, and at some point he realized 294 00:27:24,290 --> 00:27:25,550 couldn't do that. 295 00:27:25,950 --> 00:27:30,210 He wanted to do right and do good for people. 296 00:27:30,770 --> 00:27:33,810 And my mother ended up getting him to Quaker meeting. 297 00:27:36,130 --> 00:27:42,530 And as Quakers, you really do table the concept that nations are more important 298 00:27:42,530 --> 00:27:43,519 than people. 299 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:50,460 and therefore you don't salute flags, and you do take the sanctity of human 300 00:27:50,460 --> 00:27:53,980 life and all life, you know, you take that for granted. 301 00:27:55,180 --> 00:27:56,700 And he became a teacher. 302 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,740 He was offered good jobs on both East Coast and West Coast. 303 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:06,600 And we crossed country in our wooden station wagon. 304 00:28:07,980 --> 00:28:12,560 We really were, I guess, modern -day gypsies. 305 00:28:15,180 --> 00:28:17,100 Not great on kids, you know. 306 00:28:19,660 --> 00:28:22,640 I think you get afraid of making friends because you know you're going to move 307 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,000 again, and we did. 308 00:28:26,660 --> 00:28:30,560 When I was 10 years old, I lived in Baghdad of all places. 309 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:37,480 It was filthy, and it was sad, you know, and seeing the kind of poverty and, 310 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,700 I mean, not even racism, just the British. 311 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,280 and it had nothing to do with those filthy natives. 312 00:28:46,340 --> 00:28:51,240 Being brown -skinned, I was considered an Arab because I looked like one. My 313 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:52,240 sisters didn't. 314 00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:58,140 That's kind of how it started, my feeling about how people would want to 315 00:28:58,140 --> 00:28:59,140 treated. 316 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:06,240 Plus, I had the family discussing this idea of Gandhi and this idea of 317 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:11,440 nonviolence, so that when I heard Dr. King speak, and I was, I think I was 16, 318 00:29:12,540 --> 00:29:19,240 Anyway, it was around that time period I knew that this was it for me. 319 00:29:38,990 --> 00:29:44,270 When she sang, she sang, I know the above crowd, because she had this 320 00:29:44,270 --> 00:29:45,270 voice. 321 00:29:46,550 --> 00:29:51,950 We knew a pro within the ring, and yet she was with us and among us, and yet 322 00:29:51,950 --> 00:29:53,530 was Joan Baez. 323 00:29:56,130 --> 00:30:03,050 Joan Baez and Odetta and Habrela Quante had these special gifts 324 00:30:03,050 --> 00:30:06,590 of God, and they chose to devote them. 325 00:30:07,340 --> 00:30:11,420 to the emancipation of a people and the transformation of a nation. 326 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:39,700 March on Washington was massive. 327 00:30:40,140 --> 00:30:44,200 I remember looking out on the sea of people which grew and grew and grew and 328 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,540 grew to as far as you could see. 329 00:30:51,100 --> 00:30:55,240 What an extraordinary gift to be there when Dr. 330 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:56,960 King took off with that speech. 331 00:30:57,860 --> 00:31:03,720 I don't remember anybody else who spoke. 332 00:31:04,220 --> 00:31:06,880 You know, I guess probably most people don't. 333 00:31:08,110 --> 00:31:13,230 of God's children, black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and 334 00:31:13,230 --> 00:31:18,070 Catholics will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro 335 00:31:18,070 --> 00:31:23,970 spiritual, free at last, free at last, thank God Almighty, we are free at last. 336 00:32:13,230 --> 00:32:16,270 Dylan and his music entered my life. 337 00:32:16,830 --> 00:32:21,290 Maybe I didn't know I'd been looking for music, but I certainly was aware that 338 00:32:21,290 --> 00:32:24,750 something was missing, particularly when I heard what it was. 339 00:32:25,510 --> 00:32:32,110 I thought, oh my God, this is the link. This is the link between me and the 340 00:32:32,110 --> 00:32:34,630 world and music and politics and all of it. 341 00:32:34,850 --> 00:32:39,050 I heard that music and that made it clear that that was the direction to go. 342 00:32:44,140 --> 00:32:46,800 It came and it went. 343 00:32:48,540 --> 00:32:55,080 The reason for fighting I never 344 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:56,280 did get. 345 00:32:58,580 --> 00:33:02,700 But I learned to accept it. 346 00:33:03,860 --> 00:33:06,660 Accept it with pride. 347 00:33:08,660 --> 00:33:11,380 Oh, you don't... Bob came from... 348 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,680 same tradition, the folk music tradition, but he was already writing 349 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:16,680 songs. 350 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,700 This is a guy who's an unbelievably good poet. 351 00:33:21,780 --> 00:33:24,420 And she knew the strength of the songs. 352 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:30,640 When Joan started looking for material other than 100 -year -old ballads, you 353 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:35,480 know, Dylan was there, and he had been studying that so he could write songs 354 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,420 that would fit into what she was doing. 355 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:43,520 When Joan met Bob Dylan, he was kind of a street urchin. He was scuffling along, 356 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,820 playing Gertie's Folk City, doing Hootenannies. 357 00:33:47,260 --> 00:33:51,900 I don't know, maybe playing the Café Roi, some of the other coffee houses 358 00:33:51,900 --> 00:33:52,900 the village. 359 00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:57,700 And now my mother and things all poured out because he was a scruffy little 360 00:33:57,700 --> 00:33:58,720 mess, you know. 361 00:33:59,620 --> 00:34:05,100 But it was this initial blast of talent and his general 362 00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:06,720 strangeness. 363 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,699 mystique and all of it at a really young age. 364 00:34:12,260 --> 00:34:16,739 I don't know, he was already a legend by the time he got his foot into Gertie's. 365 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:24,360 And she knew that he was, you know, besides the mystique, very talented, 366 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:25,840 nice. He's a good guy. 367 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,600 And I think she had a crush on him. 368 00:34:29,699 --> 00:34:31,139 I know he had a crush on her. 369 00:34:31,900 --> 00:34:36,159 And the two of them were quite a force at that time. 370 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:07,640 Dylan, 371 00:35:08,420 --> 00:35:13,400 I thought, was as taken with me and my music as I was with his. 372 00:35:15,690 --> 00:35:17,090 I was crazy about him. 373 00:35:17,650 --> 00:35:20,070 We were an item and we were having wonderful fun. 374 00:35:24,690 --> 00:35:31,430 I always liked singing and playing with her. I thought our voices 375 00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:32,430 really blended well. 376 00:35:33,050 --> 00:35:35,890 We could sing just about any kind of thing and make it make sense. 377 00:35:36,930 --> 00:35:40,990 To me, it always sounded good. I think it might have sounded good to her, too. 378 00:35:42,050 --> 00:35:44,450 Then we began singing here and there. 379 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,780 And she just asked me if I wanted to play some shows with her, just like 380 00:35:49,700 --> 00:35:51,720 It was probably like this. 381 00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:54,960 Hey, Bob, you want to sing some concerts with me? 382 00:35:55,380 --> 00:35:56,440 I said, I don't know. 383 00:35:57,340 --> 00:36:01,480 And I would say something like, I think this would be a fantastic idea. 384 00:36:01,860 --> 00:36:02,860 Hey, yes, who do I? 385 00:36:04,220 --> 00:36:06,000 So I have these shows coming up. 386 00:36:06,420 --> 00:36:08,960 Would you like to be part of them? Well, you know, what the fuck? 387 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:11,760 He'd come out on the stage. 388 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:16,100 People didn't want to hear that. I mean, they were there to hear the pristine 389 00:36:16,100 --> 00:36:18,280 little Virgin Mary. 390 00:36:18,940 --> 00:36:21,800 And then we had one song about how he came. 391 00:36:22,220 --> 00:36:24,580 And I was like, myth dove. 392 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,580 Now you listen. 393 00:36:27,660 --> 00:36:33,340 And it didn't take long before people got it that he was pretty damn special. 394 00:36:35,140 --> 00:36:37,400 And there was this goldmine of music. 395 00:36:38,410 --> 00:36:43,750 I remember the music on my records really taking a leap forward. 396 00:36:44,230 --> 00:36:51,150 Folk music became more important when new songs 397 00:36:51,150 --> 00:36:57,890 started being written. And it set the stage for it becoming the component of 398 00:36:57,890 --> 00:36:59,430 rock and roll that made rock and roll. 399 00:37:00,700 --> 00:37:02,940 and therefore made rock and roll an art form. 400 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:33,000 I was the singer and he was the writer, and the two of us weren't just two 401 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,040 people, we amounted to a minimum of three. 402 00:37:36,060 --> 00:37:39,560 But we were in a bubble, and it didn't last. 403 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:46,960 But I heard you say that love is just a four -letter 404 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:47,960 word. 405 00:37:49,700 --> 00:37:51,040 Do you remember any more, Bobby? 406 00:37:51,500 --> 00:37:52,660 No, I never finished it. 407 00:37:52,900 --> 00:37:53,779 Oh, God. 408 00:37:53,780 --> 00:37:55,760 You finished it about eight different ways. Yeah. 409 00:37:58,540 --> 00:38:00,440 That's a good song. It's beautiful. 410 00:38:00,940 --> 00:38:05,400 The beginning was one thing, because I had a sort of claim on him for a while. 411 00:38:05,540 --> 00:38:10,060 And later on, it was entirely another, and I was just part of the pack. 412 00:38:11,940 --> 00:38:13,740 It was not an easy place to be. 413 00:38:14,420 --> 00:38:20,400 And the magnet element of him, people just wanted to be part of it. And I was 414 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,600 ass enough to feel the same way. 415 00:38:24,910 --> 00:38:29,310 American folk singer Bob Dylan sat scowling in a hotel armchair last night. 416 00:38:29,310 --> 00:38:33,610 his hands was an iris. Bob, who arrived 90 minutes before his British tour was 417 00:38:33,610 --> 00:38:36,970 due. The tour in England was hell. 418 00:38:38,490 --> 00:38:40,270 There's not really much else to say. 419 00:38:41,130 --> 00:38:47,030 It was just hideous, partly because everybody was doing drugs, and I didn't 420 00:38:47,030 --> 00:38:48,030 understand that. 421 00:38:49,310 --> 00:38:50,990 Out of place, big guy. 422 00:38:52,350 --> 00:38:56,110 And it was really demoralizing, and I was letting myself be demoralized by him 423 00:38:56,110 --> 00:38:58,250 not asking me on stage with him. 424 00:39:00,190 --> 00:39:02,310 It was a very unhappy time. 425 00:39:03,990 --> 00:39:07,290 I was just trying to deal with the madness that had become my career. 426 00:39:09,750 --> 00:39:15,070 And unfortunately, she got swept along, and I felt very bad about it. I was 427 00:39:15,070 --> 00:39:16,510 sorry to see our relationship end. 428 00:39:17,850 --> 00:39:21,510 Really good friends on that tour were saying, go home. 429 00:39:22,250 --> 00:39:24,830 If you want to keep sane, go home. 430 00:39:25,510 --> 00:39:28,130 I didn't have the brains to leave. I couldn't leave. 431 00:39:28,610 --> 00:39:31,990 And that's just how people get. 432 00:39:33,690 --> 00:39:40,390 Go away 433 00:39:40,390 --> 00:39:43,510 from my window. 434 00:39:45,130 --> 00:39:48,470 Leave at your own children's feet. 435 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,920 I'm not the one you want me. 436 00:39:55,700 --> 00:40:00,360 Bob suffered under me wanting him to be other than he was. 437 00:40:00,620 --> 00:40:03,620 I wanted him to be a political spokesperson. 438 00:40:04,100 --> 00:40:10,400 I wanted him to be out in public and to be on our team. 439 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,460 That was my hang -up. 440 00:40:37,270 --> 00:40:42,070 If I could just accept him for his songs and what he did and what he was. 441 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:44,940 But I was trying to shove him into a mold. 442 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,700 And it wasn't until years later that I realized he didn't need to be on the 443 00:40:49,700 --> 00:40:51,760 team. He wrote the songs. 444 00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:57,700 It was the most powerful stuff that we had in our nonviolent arsenal. 445 00:41:26,620 --> 00:41:33,480 When she was doing the protest against the draft, she would go to Oakland, 446 00:41:33,660 --> 00:41:37,100 she would go to the terminal where they were loading the guys on, you know, 447 00:41:37,100 --> 00:41:38,620 recruits on to go to training. 448 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,880 And she would stand there and say, you don't have to do this. 449 00:41:44,170 --> 00:41:49,350 We have lawyers, we have advisors, we can show you how to try and not become 450 00:41:49,350 --> 00:41:50,350 part of this. 451 00:41:50,870 --> 00:41:52,150 This is a bad thing. 452 00:41:52,730 --> 00:41:58,130 And they would spit at her and kick her and curse her and call her every name 453 00:41:58,130 --> 00:42:00,070 under the sun, and she would keep trying. 454 00:42:00,690 --> 00:42:04,570 And every once in a while, she'd manage to pull a guy out of the line. 455 00:42:05,250 --> 00:42:08,530 And then they'd arrest her, and they'd take her down and throw her in jail. 456 00:42:13,470 --> 00:42:16,850 She'd spend a couple of days in jail, and she'd get out, and she'd go home, 457 00:42:16,850 --> 00:42:20,290 a shower, and have a meal, and go right back to Oakland and stand at the door. 458 00:42:22,810 --> 00:42:26,530 She'd go right back and start over. 459 00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:30,810 That's a kind of courage you don't see often. 460 00:42:34,830 --> 00:42:41,590 I've just had the opportunity of visiting my very dear friend, Joan Baez. 461 00:42:42,510 --> 00:42:49,290 And Mother, I decided, as an expression of my appreciation for 462 00:42:49,290 --> 00:42:53,670 what they are doing for the peace movement and for what they have done for 463 00:42:53,670 --> 00:43:00,210 civil rights movement, I would take time out of my schedule to come out to see 464 00:43:00,210 --> 00:43:05,090 them, to visit them, and let them know that they have our absolute support. 465 00:43:05,950 --> 00:43:10,890 The Alameda County prison farm has been home to 78 diehard anti -war 466 00:43:10,890 --> 00:43:15,150 demonstrators ever since their arrest at the draft induction center in Oakland 467 00:43:15,150 --> 00:43:19,010 last week. Among the new inmates, folk singer Joan Baez. 468 00:43:19,390 --> 00:43:20,890 I learned something in there. 469 00:43:23,050 --> 00:43:29,830 What did you learn? When you go into jail as a pacifist, you come out a 470 00:43:29,830 --> 00:43:30,830 stronger pacifist. 471 00:43:35,340 --> 00:43:36,920 Was that the first time you met? 472 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,200 Yeah, it was after you were out of jail. 473 00:43:39,980 --> 00:43:43,160 You had your cowboy hat on. Maybe that was part of it. 474 00:43:44,300 --> 00:43:45,620 It was either before. 475 00:43:46,060 --> 00:43:52,800 The first time I remember was we were organizing resistance, and 476 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,780 at some point somebody said, well, you ought to raise some money off of Joan. 477 00:43:58,319 --> 00:44:03,080 That's perfect. That's right. And I said, okay, what the hell? Did I give 478 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:04,480 money right off the bat? Yeah, you did. 479 00:44:05,780 --> 00:44:08,980 I remember thinking, God damn, I can't deal with that woman. 480 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:14,220 And then, of course, it proved out that it wasn't the case. 481 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:19,920 This was a destiny. 482 00:44:20,180 --> 00:44:25,100 He was the head of the draft resistance movement, and I was who I was. 483 00:44:25,610 --> 00:44:28,750 and we were riding on a wave in tumultuous times. 484 00:44:31,370 --> 00:44:37,450 You know, he's an attractive guy in many, many ways, and I thought that was 485 00:44:37,450 --> 00:44:41,270 terrific, and I fell in love with him, and we went and we did all these things 486 00:44:41,270 --> 00:44:42,270 together. 487 00:44:42,490 --> 00:44:47,230 I wasn't used to committing myself anywhere, you know, to anybody more than 488 00:44:47,230 --> 00:44:48,230 about five minutes. 489 00:44:48,890 --> 00:44:51,070 So this was getting to be quite long. 490 00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:55,550 We did get past five minutes. We got past five minutes, a couple months. 491 00:44:57,250 --> 00:45:00,970 And had a wonderful time during part of it. 492 00:45:03,050 --> 00:45:04,910 And part of it for me was learning. 493 00:45:05,210 --> 00:45:09,910 When you're given a draft card, it's a very simple statement. I mean, it's like 494 00:45:09,910 --> 00:45:10,910 a deed of ownership. 495 00:45:11,010 --> 00:45:14,170 It says the life of the bear belongs to the United States of America. 496 00:45:14,430 --> 00:45:16,970 David is and was a brilliant speaker. 497 00:45:17,530 --> 00:45:21,290 And I love listening to it. I love seeing people respond to it. If that 498 00:45:21,290 --> 00:45:23,450 happens in the world, does it say we live in a blind society? 499 00:45:25,910 --> 00:45:30,370 Yeah, think wartime romance, you know. I mean, it was certainly that. I was head 500 00:45:30,370 --> 00:45:33,830 over heels in love, you know. I wouldn't have done all that without that. And, 501 00:45:33,850 --> 00:45:39,310 you know, you were a gorgeous woman, and you were the woman everybody else 502 00:45:39,310 --> 00:45:41,430 wanted, and I had you, and that was the whoa. 503 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:43,000 Hey, all right. 504 00:45:43,900 --> 00:45:45,900 Cool, I don't care what she's doing. 505 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,380 For a kid from Fresno, California, that's doing okay. 506 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:56,660 One of the great stories about the David Harris -Joan Baez romance was the first 507 00:45:56,660 --> 00:46:02,240 time I brought you up and we stayed in the commune. She walks into the regular 508 00:46:02,240 --> 00:46:03,500 house and... 509 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,680 We just scored a pound of weed. 510 00:46:06,900 --> 00:46:10,860 You know, it was going to be split up between a lot of people. And she is 511 00:46:10,860 --> 00:46:15,220 fucking horrified when she sees this out there. And she flushes the whole thing 512 00:46:15,220 --> 00:46:16,220 down the toilet. 513 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,880 Made myself really popular. There was a kind of, what? 514 00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:21,440 She did what? 515 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,880 I didn't realize the import of what I'd done, being a non -pot person. 516 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,400 It was a volatile combination. 517 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:35,600 You were doing Singing Star, and I was Scruffy Organizer. 518 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,600 You made a pretty good dancing duo when you went out to speak. 519 00:46:39,940 --> 00:46:40,940 Yeah, absolutely. 520 00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:42,340 No, we were a great one -two punch. 521 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,160 Carry it on. 522 00:46:49,220 --> 00:46:51,240 Carry it on. 523 00:46:52,180 --> 00:46:57,420 So we come here today to do, to re -proclaim our brotherhood with the 524 00:46:57,420 --> 00:46:58,920 that we've been told we have to murder. 525 00:46:59,530 --> 00:47:02,330 How could I know what's going to replace the nation state? Because it hasn't 526 00:47:02,330 --> 00:47:05,470 been there yet. You and I are going to have to make it. We're going to have to 527 00:47:05,470 --> 00:47:06,470 do it together. 528 00:47:06,590 --> 00:47:09,230 You've got to make a choice whether they're going to continue to carry draft 529 00:47:09,230 --> 00:47:12,530 cards and continue to pay taxes and continue to go on and on and on. 530 00:47:15,450 --> 00:47:22,250 I think if everybody in 531 00:47:22,250 --> 00:47:24,970 America began to exercise what we're talking about, we'd live in a radically 532 00:47:24,970 --> 00:47:25,970 different society. 533 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:34,520 I think that was what held our relationship together. 534 00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:40,060 I mean, you know, we broke off and got back together and broke off and got back 535 00:47:40,060 --> 00:47:42,380 together, and we started a speaking tour. 536 00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:47,300 You know, the first day we were broken up, you know, and I'm thinking, oh, 537 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,540 here I am. I've got to travel all around the country with my ex -girlfriend or 538 00:47:51,540 --> 00:47:54,920 whatever, you know. And then the next day we were back together, and then we 539 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:56,340 married when we hit New York. 540 00:47:57,100 --> 00:48:01,300 Instead of going on a honeymoon, you two are going on an anti -draft lecture. 541 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,600 What type of reception do you think you'll have? 542 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:11,020 We've been on this tour for a couple of weeks now, and we get all kinds of 543 00:48:11,020 --> 00:48:12,060 reception. We get anger. 544 00:48:12,660 --> 00:48:19,500 We get some people who agree. We get some men who come to the stage and turn 545 00:48:19,500 --> 00:48:22,640 their draft cards. We get some people who begin to have an understanding of 546 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,140 we're talking about when we talk about nonviolence. 547 00:48:27,370 --> 00:48:31,290 We're offering brotherhood. We're saying a society built around principle of 548 00:48:31,290 --> 00:48:33,050 brotherhood is the only hope in this world. 549 00:48:33,450 --> 00:48:35,130 Mr. and Mrs. Peace in America. 550 00:48:37,590 --> 00:48:38,590 Wedding of the century. 551 00:48:38,990 --> 00:48:40,010 Marriage of the century. 552 00:48:40,330 --> 00:48:45,430 And we had about a six, eight month period there where we really found a 553 00:48:45,430 --> 00:48:47,310 kind of balance right before I went to jail. 554 00:48:51,130 --> 00:48:53,510 Well, I found out this morning that my appeals are over. 555 00:48:54,230 --> 00:48:59,590 Man. I'm not going to surrender myself because I figure if somebody's going to 556 00:48:59,590 --> 00:49:02,110 take three years of your life, the least they can do is give you a ride. 557 00:49:02,850 --> 00:49:09,070 In my heart, I will wait by the 558 00:49:09,070 --> 00:49:10,510 stony gate. 559 00:49:13,370 --> 00:49:16,830 And the little one... It was the moonshot day. 560 00:49:17,290 --> 00:49:21,830 It's that morning that the first rocket to the moon took off. 561 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:32,160 I just remember knowing that this would be a very unconventional arrest because 562 00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,280 we would welcome them in, which we did. 563 00:49:35,700 --> 00:49:42,420 As one group of men shot off to the moon, my husband 564 00:49:42,420 --> 00:49:47,200 was shot off to prison for refusing to cooperate with the draft. 565 00:49:48,589 --> 00:49:52,890 I knew when we got married that he would be spending time in prison. I feel that 566 00:49:52,890 --> 00:49:56,530 if he and I continue to be involved in the revolution, which we will, we'll 567 00:49:56,530 --> 00:49:57,530 spend time in prison. 568 00:49:58,190 --> 00:50:03,350 David was 569 00:50:03,350 --> 00:50:10,210 in prison when Gabe was 570 00:50:10,210 --> 00:50:16,790 born. And I called him and told him that we had a boy, this beautiful child. 571 00:50:17,580 --> 00:50:24,520 I stared at him and I worried about him and I fed him and took him to visit his 572 00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:25,940 daddy in prison. 573 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:32,760 The flowers that we planted through the season 574 00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:39,520 past will all bloom on 575 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,760 the day you return. 576 00:50:47,180 --> 00:50:50,000 It's a much harder transition coming out than it is going in. 577 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,960 There's a reason that all the people who go to prison end up divorced. 578 00:50:56,380 --> 00:51:03,020 Being a convict and being Mrs. Peace in America are very different 579 00:51:03,020 --> 00:51:06,280 roles. Three months after I was out of the joint, we were separated. 580 00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:12,320 Gabe got exactly three months of that experience, and even then it was weird. 581 00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:13,320 mean, who was I? 582 00:51:13,580 --> 00:51:16,940 I mean, I haven't seen him once a month for 15 months. 583 00:51:17,540 --> 00:51:24,400 For me, I thought I was a wonderful mom, and in some ways I 584 00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:25,400 was. 585 00:51:25,500 --> 00:51:32,200 So when Gabe grew up and little by little resentments would spill out that 586 00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,420 was my mom, and I thought I was there. 587 00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:38,700 And I really thought I was there. I didn't realize that I'd be reading him a 588 00:51:38,700 --> 00:51:41,080 story and the phone would ring and I'd go dashing off. 589 00:51:41,740 --> 00:51:46,120 get myself on another march. I mean, I didn't have any sense that you didn't do 590 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,200 that. You're reading to your kid and you stay reading to your kid. 591 00:51:49,740 --> 00:51:56,500 And so, I mean, filled with things that if I had to do it again, of course, 592 00:51:56,500 --> 00:51:58,020 I would do it differently. 593 00:51:58,520 --> 00:51:59,520 Wouldn't we all? 594 00:52:07,020 --> 00:52:10,240 How long since I have spent a whole night 595 00:52:11,020 --> 00:52:16,860 in a twin bed with a stranger, his warm arms 596 00:52:16,860 --> 00:52:19,420 all around me. 597 00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:31,100 How long since I have gazed into dark eyes which melted my soul 598 00:52:31,100 --> 00:52:37,660 down to the place where it longed to be. 599 00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:48,940 All of your history had little to do with your face. 600 00:52:50,740 --> 00:52:57,480 You're mainly a mystery with violins filling in space. 601 00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:04,480 It's much easier to have a relationship with 10 ,000 people than it is with one. 602 00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:10,580 I'm safe in my little cocoon of admirers, and that sort of, in a way, 603 00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:17,580 substituted. for whatever other life I could be leading or for any serious 604 00:53:17,580 --> 00:53:19,900 intimacy with another person. 605 00:53:20,740 --> 00:53:27,300 Don't tell me of love ever laughing and other sad 606 00:53:27,300 --> 00:53:33,200 dreams that I don't want to hear. 607 00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:42,180 In Love Song to a Stranger, I wrote about what it's like to be on tour, what 608 00:53:42,180 --> 00:53:43,880 it's like to be transient. 609 00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:48,500 I was promiscuous up until 20 years ago. 610 00:53:49,060 --> 00:53:54,840 I guess I grabbed that moment somewhere in me knowing that it wouldn't last, but 611 00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:58,720 always thinking, well, maybe this time it will. No, but I think it's safer to 612 00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:02,120 write a song about transient relationship. 613 00:54:14,350 --> 00:54:18,390 For many years I didn't have a good balance. 614 00:54:19,070 --> 00:54:20,410 I'm too much. 615 00:54:20,770 --> 00:54:25,310 I'm trying to protect myself or hide myself and at the same time be available 616 00:54:25,310 --> 00:54:26,310 anybody and everybody. 617 00:54:30,530 --> 00:54:34,410 I was invited to North Vietnam. 618 00:54:38,750 --> 00:54:42,190 One of our group of four, was a Vietnam veteran. 619 00:54:42,590 --> 00:54:49,190 And then there was Mike Allen, a minister, and Telfer Taylor, who was a 620 00:54:49,190 --> 00:54:50,610 four -star general. 621 00:54:51,410 --> 00:54:55,770 And he was there to discover for himself or to see whether he thought there were 622 00:54:55,770 --> 00:54:56,850 actual war crimes. 623 00:54:58,010 --> 00:54:59,550 And I was the pacifist. 624 00:55:01,270 --> 00:55:05,010 What we did was offer to take letters to the POWs. 625 00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:14,060 Of course, they wanted us to be impressed by the pictures of what the B 626 00:55:14,060 --> 00:55:20,300 shrapnel and all sorts of hideous weaponry had done to the people of North 627 00:55:20,300 --> 00:55:21,300 Vietnam. 628 00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:29,000 And on the end of the third day, we were sitting there and we heard a siren go 629 00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:30,000 off. 630 00:55:32,620 --> 00:55:34,560 And I thought for sure it was a drill. 631 00:55:36,740 --> 00:55:39,120 And then we heard planes in the distance. 632 00:55:44,820 --> 00:55:49,760 And it got close enough, and they said, please go down here, and they ushered us 633 00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:50,760 into a bomb shelter. 634 00:55:54,060 --> 00:55:56,520 It was like a movie. I couldn't believe my ears. 635 00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:01,580 And the closer they got, you know, the more frightened I got. 636 00:56:04,430 --> 00:56:06,730 And I could feel my nightgown flutter. 637 00:56:07,150 --> 00:56:09,150 And it was the air and concussions. 638 00:56:10,990 --> 00:56:13,670 That went on for 11 days. 639 00:56:14,630 --> 00:56:19,690 It was the heaviest carpet bombing that took place during that whole war. 640 00:56:22,350 --> 00:56:28,210 I understood that I was mortal, really, in a big way, in the first time. 641 00:56:29,130 --> 00:56:30,130 And that... 642 00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,940 Autumn One automatically says, oh, please, oh, please, oh, please, not me. 643 00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:39,220 God all of a sudden becomes real for everybody, even atheists who say, oh, 644 00:56:39,260 --> 00:56:41,020 please, get me out of this one. 645 00:56:59,370 --> 00:57:03,170 Can you tell us about what you saw during your stay in Hanoi? 646 00:57:04,530 --> 00:57:08,710 So the same thing that all of us saw, which is just hideousness that would 647 00:57:08,710 --> 00:57:14,210 a while for me to absorb, and coming out of there feelings mixed with relief at 648 00:57:14,210 --> 00:57:20,970 leaving and terrible guilt of being a part of what's landing 649 00:57:20,970 --> 00:57:22,290 on those people's heads over there. 650 00:57:22,530 --> 00:57:24,710 You used the word hideousness. What do you mean by that? 651 00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:32,700 Murder, you know, murder and slaughter, blood, etc. 652 00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:41,720 You can't deny the other side don't want to die any 653 00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:43,160 more than we do. 654 00:57:43,780 --> 00:57:50,720 What I'm trying to say is don't they pray to the same God 655 00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:51,920 that we do? 656 00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:55,720 Tell me how does God choose? 657 00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:59,880 Just whose prayers he will refuse. 658 00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:02,780 Who spins the wheel. 659 00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:06,280 Who throws the dice. 660 00:58:07,340 --> 00:58:09,800 On the day after tomorrow. 661 00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,800 And I am alive and well. 662 00:58:15,420 --> 00:58:18,400 I love you and the kids very much. 663 00:58:18,740 --> 00:58:24,560 Last year, I went to the Vietnam Memorial in Washington. 664 00:58:26,250 --> 00:58:29,650 I saw the wall. I wanted to put my hands on the wall. 665 00:58:30,490 --> 00:58:33,390 I wanted to go into it. I couldn't get close enough. 666 00:58:34,170 --> 00:58:37,910 And then I could feel it coming, and I started to scream. 667 00:58:38,370 --> 00:58:45,010 I just do what I've been told We're just the gravel on the 668 00:58:45,010 --> 00:58:51,470 road And only the lucky ones will come home 669 00:58:51,470 --> 00:58:54,730 On the day after tomorrow 670 00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:05,000 I'd sat on most of that stuff all of those years because it was beyond 671 00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:07,620 imagining. It was beyond feeling. 672 00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:15,560 I had stuck down there for all these decades, really. 673 00:59:17,580 --> 00:59:21,040 So that's how deep it was. 674 00:59:30,060 --> 00:59:35,200 We'll touch down on the day after tomorrow. 675 00:59:57,770 --> 01:00:03,230 I think it's true for a lot of people that in order to do one thing, as in the 676 01:00:03,230 --> 01:00:07,050 politics, you're going to sacrifice the music or vice versa. 677 01:00:08,310 --> 01:00:12,610 I certainly know people for whom that's been true. 678 01:00:13,850 --> 01:00:20,130 For me, when I sold the most albums, the most people came to my 679 01:00:20,130 --> 01:00:26,530 concerts, and I was happiest and made the most sense was when I was doing 680 01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:43,300 Everybody would go to Nashville to record at some point, and I'm sure it 681 01:00:43,300 --> 01:00:45,600 suggestion of the record company. 682 01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:50,500 We would work from 3 o 'clock in the afternoon until 3 o 'clock in the 683 01:00:54,540 --> 01:00:58,900 And then they drove old Dixie down. I'm not sure who handed it to me, but it had 684 01:00:58,900 --> 01:01:00,400 been written recently. 685 01:01:01,540 --> 01:01:04,440 And everybody in the studio came in. 686 01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:07,100 where we were singing, we all sang it. 687 01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:14,640 People 688 01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:25,700 have 689 01:01:25,700 --> 01:01:32,840 asked 690 01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:35,870 me all of my life, How do I choose a song? 691 01:01:36,350 --> 01:01:40,230 And the real answer is that it chooses me because I don't know the answer to 692 01:01:40,230 --> 01:01:40,888 that question. 693 01:01:40,890 --> 01:01:44,650 If I choose them or they choose me, we both have very good taste. 694 01:01:50,190 --> 01:01:56,790 Besides her being a great singer, she really recognizes the value of a great 695 01:01:56,790 --> 01:02:00,230 song. And she has consistently throughout her whole career. 696 01:02:02,450 --> 01:02:04,010 She picked great songs. 697 01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:06,540 And she sang the spots off of them. 698 01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:14,180 My theory about songwriting is there's a double whammy at some point. 699 01:02:15,020 --> 01:02:20,680 A lot of songs are lighter and they're nice and you like them, but the ones 700 01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:24,700 mean something to people, it comes from something pretty deep. 701 01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:38,140 Here comes your ghost again, but that's not unusual. 702 01:02:40,460 --> 01:02:46,500 It's just that the moon is full, and you happen to call. 703 01:02:47,060 --> 01:02:50,380 I started writing a song that had nothing to do with Dylan. 704 01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:53,820 I think probably that's when Bob called. 705 01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:59,060 And I think after that, Diamonds and Rust started to develop. 706 01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:07,600 A couple of light years ago, heading straight for a fall. 707 01:03:10,220 --> 01:03:14,660 It's a song that came deep from in me, and somehow that's what makes it bridge 708 01:03:14,660 --> 01:03:15,658 to other people. 709 01:03:15,660 --> 01:03:21,260 As I remember your eyes were bluer than robin's eggs. 710 01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:25,460 My poetry was lousy, you said. 711 01:03:26,700 --> 01:03:29,420 And where are you calling from? 712 01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:33,380 In the Midwest. 713 01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:38,680 I love that song, Diamonds and Broth. That means to be included in something 714 01:03:38,680 --> 01:03:41,380 that Joan had written. I mean, 715 01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:48,940 to this day, it still reminds me. You gave me something And we both 716 01:03:48,940 --> 01:03:54,460 know what memories can bring They bring diamonds and... 717 01:04:18,730 --> 01:04:20,490 Rolling Thunder was really fun. 718 01:04:21,470 --> 01:04:25,230 Bob invited me to be part of this group of Mad Hatters. 719 01:04:31,010 --> 01:04:32,350 It was really pretty. 720 01:04:32,910 --> 01:04:36,390 Bob wore flowers in his hat and everybody had scarves. 721 01:04:38,430 --> 01:04:41,010 I pity the poor immigrants. 722 01:04:42,110 --> 01:04:44,530 Oh, they didn't want to stay home. 723 01:04:45,070 --> 01:04:48,210 I got to see a different side of Joan on the Rolling Thunder tour. 724 01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:53,280 I'd seen her as a sort of pristine, prim and proper lady who stood for social 725 01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:56,760 causes. And then when I got to know her, she let her hair down, and she's just 726 01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:57,760 wild and fun. 727 01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:03,480 It was all being filmed. 728 01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:07,500 And Dylan got his hands on the camera, and he went around shooting. 729 01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:10,820 You know, just shoot whatever you see. That would be cool. That would be cool. 730 01:05:10,820 --> 01:05:11,820 Put it in here. 731 01:05:16,029 --> 01:05:19,470 Joanie's role in that movie was created for her to be the heroine. 732 01:05:20,750 --> 01:05:24,130 I thought that Joanie always wanted to express herself that way. I know she was 733 01:05:24,130 --> 01:05:26,810 completely in her element on that Roland Thunder tour. 734 01:05:27,650 --> 01:05:29,470 She brought a lot to that tour. 735 01:05:42,170 --> 01:05:43,410 It's all pretty much fun. 736 01:05:44,010 --> 01:05:47,790 I didn't have to be Joan Baez. I didn't have to be responsible for anything, and 737 01:05:47,790 --> 01:05:48,790 I enjoyed that. 738 01:05:49,370 --> 01:05:52,510 If I had done it too long, I would have freaked out and thought, I must be doing 739 01:05:52,510 --> 01:05:54,010 something more serious than this. 740 01:05:59,110 --> 01:06:03,730 I have some wonderful memories of when we were on the Rolling Thunder tour, 741 01:06:03,850 --> 01:06:10,070 traveling on a bus with all kinds of other musicians and interesting 742 01:06:11,020 --> 01:06:15,520 running around with other kids from whoever else was there performing. 743 01:06:18,740 --> 01:06:25,620 Most families, everybody 744 01:06:25,620 --> 01:06:31,360 had dinner at a certain time, and everybody knew where their kids were 745 01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:32,360 the time. 746 01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:39,360 But I had a lot of people looking out for me, too. My mom 747 01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:45,620 was... was gone on the road a lot, obviously, being involved in 748 01:06:45,620 --> 01:06:47,980 some pretty intense activities. 749 01:06:50,460 --> 01:06:55,340 The Cambodians here don't have the slightest idea who Joan Baez is, where 750 01:06:55,340 --> 01:06:57,400 comes from, or what her coming here means. 751 01:06:57,740 --> 01:07:01,480 What they do know is that Vietnamese guns are driving them out of their 752 01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:03,820 homeland. There's a war going on 400 yards away. 753 01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:05,040 I know. 754 01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:09,680 Do you think people will consider you a hypocrite, a publicity seeker? Oh, you 755 01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:12,820 bet. You know, I sell all my hottest albums on the Cambodian border. 756 01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:15,340 I mean, that gets to be laughable. 757 01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:20,420 People will say whatever they have to say to make themselves understand what 758 01:07:20,420 --> 01:07:21,440 bias is up to next. 759 01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:23,160 She didn't give up. 760 01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:28,620 She didn't say, OK, we beat that Vietnam War. Now I can relax and go have a 761 01:07:28,620 --> 01:07:34,200 cheeseburger. She has an ethical, moral stance in the world. 762 01:07:36,610 --> 01:07:39,290 And to her, you know, it's very clear. 763 01:07:39,810 --> 01:07:42,410 There's right and there's wrong, and she can see which is which. 764 01:07:43,730 --> 01:07:45,610 She knows which side she's on. 765 01:07:54,170 --> 01:07:58,690 I'm perfectly aware that I'm at my happiest and healthiest when I'm very 766 01:07:58,690 --> 01:07:59,690 wrapped up in politics. 767 01:08:00,300 --> 01:08:03,740 I'm aware that music plays a secondary role in my life, and there doesn't seem 768 01:08:03,740 --> 01:08:07,000 to be much I can do about that except try to be conscientious about the music 769 01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:08,000 and keep it up. 770 01:08:08,220 --> 01:08:12,820 But the real driving force and excitement in my life is when I'm 771 01:08:12,820 --> 01:08:14,660 other people or in a project. 772 01:08:17,620 --> 01:08:23,939 The core thing driving her was her personal beliefs and philosophy and 773 01:08:23,939 --> 01:08:28,240 having a real deep... 774 01:08:29,210 --> 01:08:32,090 passion for human rights. 775 01:08:46,250 --> 01:08:53,050 I certainly feel a sense of pride in what 776 01:08:53,050 --> 01:08:57,290 my mom has done, the kind of message that she's spread around the world. 777 01:08:59,020 --> 01:09:00,920 That's how I wanted to spend my life. 778 01:09:01,620 --> 01:09:05,220 You know, if I had been doing something else and somebody called me to a task 779 01:09:05,220 --> 01:09:09,500 that I didn't really want to do, and when I went and did it, sort of half 780 01:09:09,500 --> 01:09:11,040 -heartedly, that would be a sacrifice. 781 01:09:11,260 --> 01:09:13,140 But that's not how it's been for me. 782 01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:17,880 You see some people that are wounded and they're not in our party, stay back. 783 01:09:17,979 --> 01:09:18,979 Don't approach them. 784 01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:21,600 There'll be a second round, I'm almost for sure. 785 01:09:22,500 --> 01:09:23,640 Don't get used to it. 786 01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:26,080 When something hits here, there's no notice. 787 01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:27,859 And being together... 788 01:09:28,410 --> 01:09:31,410 Deciding what to do in a microsecond is going to be crucial. 789 01:09:40,090 --> 01:09:42,950 Sarajevo was incredibly terrible, horrific. 790 01:09:43,790 --> 01:09:47,310 It was a city under siege that I'd never seen the likes of. 791 01:09:48,490 --> 01:09:53,229 You're talking about people who were for hundreds of days without power, food, 792 01:09:53,510 --> 01:09:56,350 water, subsisting on their own. 793 01:09:57,730 --> 01:10:01,390 People trying to just survive and being shot and killed. 794 01:10:02,590 --> 01:10:07,610 I had just pretty much made the decision to do music and stop hopping around the 795 01:10:07,610 --> 01:10:08,610 map. 796 01:10:08,670 --> 01:10:13,050 Literally, the phone rang, and it was Lionel Rosenblatt. 797 01:10:13,410 --> 01:10:16,710 Would I go to Sarajevo and give a concert? Of course I said yes. 798 01:10:17,890 --> 01:10:24,490 Joan was brave enough to come to show the people in Sarajevo that somebody 799 01:10:24,490 --> 01:10:25,490 cared. 800 01:10:26,410 --> 01:10:30,370 There was a bakery where people would line up to get their daily bread, which 801 01:10:30,370 --> 01:10:32,670 was about the only food available. 802 01:10:34,190 --> 01:10:39,090 The Serb shellers zeroed in on it as a place where they knew they'd get a crowd 803 01:10:39,090 --> 01:10:41,390 of 100 or more people every day. 804 01:10:46,350 --> 01:10:49,510 Explosion, and 22 people instantly died. 805 01:10:50,210 --> 01:10:51,270 Why, why, why? 806 01:10:52,890 --> 01:10:54,210 400 was wounded. 807 01:10:56,080 --> 01:11:02,120 They are all my neighbors, and I don't sleep all night. 808 01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:09,360 Next morning, I just take my tuxedo, take cello, walk 809 01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:15,080 down the street. I don't know where I'm going and what am I doing. I just go 810 01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:16,080 down. 811 01:11:16,860 --> 01:11:21,660 I find myself on a dead spot, and I start to play. 812 01:11:47,310 --> 01:11:51,810 His power in doing what he did, he did it because it was essential, he did it 813 01:11:51,810 --> 01:11:57,590 because it was life -supporting, and he did it courageously. 814 01:11:58,590 --> 01:12:01,190 It was an instant soul connection. 815 01:12:04,290 --> 01:12:07,050 I cannot never, ever forget. 816 01:12:08,070 --> 01:12:10,930 I open my eyes, and that's you. 817 01:12:12,790 --> 01:12:14,230 Hard cry. 818 01:12:17,290 --> 01:12:23,610 You don't plan to sit on my chair that judge musician 819 01:12:23,610 --> 01:12:26,130 heart to heart. 820 01:12:59,850 --> 01:13:04,870 Absolutely no suggestions, because I had none, about politically what to do. 821 01:13:05,370 --> 01:13:10,010 What I went to do was to sing to the population in Sarajevo. 822 01:13:20,330 --> 01:13:25,310 Being in Sarajevo, I've never really dealt with that loss. 823 01:13:26,650 --> 01:13:28,870 I don't deal well with loss. 824 01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:36,340 And the fact is, I've never dealt that completely with the loss of my sister. 825 01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:44,740 I like to sing you a song I hadn't sung in years and years and years. I used to 826 01:13:44,740 --> 01:13:45,980 sing it with my sister Mimi. 827 01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:49,540 You may or may not recognize it. It was written by Donovan. 828 01:14:00,590 --> 01:14:06,990 Hours and minutes of uncertainty I long to breathe 829 01:14:06,990 --> 01:14:13,230 In the warm hold of your love and mine 830 01:14:13,230 --> 01:14:20,110 To feel you all around me 831 01:14:20,110 --> 01:14:26,990 And to take your hand along the sand Ah, but 832 01:14:26,990 --> 01:14:29,870 I may as well try and catch 833 01:14:31,300 --> 01:14:35,720 Mimi asked me whether I thought she should be a singer. 834 01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:38,940 And I thought I should be honest. 835 01:14:39,540 --> 01:14:41,480 And I said I didn't want her to be. 836 01:14:42,380 --> 01:14:45,300 I wanted her to be something that was independent of me. 837 01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:50,420 It wasn't what she wanted to hear, and she became a singer anyway. 838 01:15:03,930 --> 01:15:08,190 About ten years ago, Mimi was diagnosed with cancer. 839 01:15:09,390 --> 01:15:12,570 I knew, oh God, this is going to be a rough trip. 840 01:15:14,130 --> 01:15:17,290 She was very ill. She had a lot of pain. 841 01:15:19,170 --> 01:15:24,130 One day she called all of us together, friends and a family, and she said, I 842 01:15:24,130 --> 01:15:26,730 need your permission to go ahead and die. 843 01:15:29,610 --> 01:15:35,730 To kill my fears, to help me, to leave all my blues 844 01:15:35,730 --> 01:15:36,730 behind. 845 01:15:37,930 --> 01:15:44,110 And so he stayed with her and my mom, Pauline, 846 01:15:44,130 --> 01:15:48,390 and me right there while it happened. 847 01:15:49,090 --> 01:15:54,450 Ah, but I may as well try and catch the wind. 848 01:16:08,300 --> 01:16:12,480 I think I've constructed a life in which I don't feel lonely. 849 01:16:15,780 --> 01:16:19,540 The important thing for me is to spend time with my family. 850 01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:29,380 But music, particularly the songs that I chose, they were my best friends, and 851 01:16:29,380 --> 01:16:30,720 of course they were my therapy. 852 01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:34,280 Without that, I don't know what I would be right now. 853 01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:50,900 On this album, I think we were looking for, maybe not consciously at the 854 01:16:50,900 --> 01:16:54,260 beginning, but some kind of bookend for this 50 -year stretch. 855 01:16:54,860 --> 01:17:00,080 And so the songs began coming in. The ones that I was choosing were ones that, 856 01:17:00,100 --> 01:17:01,100 they didn't have a theme. 857 01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:03,640 They just had a feeling. It's sort of an essence. 858 01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:09,140 and they were pared down musically to the point that they sounded in their 859 01:17:09,140 --> 01:17:12,540 nature and in the sound like what I did 50 years ago. 860 01:17:13,540 --> 01:17:17,800 There are very, very few artists that are able to stay in a creative career 861 01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:23,420 50 years to be able to connect decade after decade with audiences. 862 01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:29,060 What she does is even more rare because she's insisted on combining new material 863 01:17:29,060 --> 01:17:30,980 by new writers as well as... 864 01:17:31,290 --> 01:17:34,590 drawing from the source that originally made her famous. 865 01:17:38,690 --> 01:17:40,590 She's done it all through the years. 866 01:17:41,050 --> 01:17:45,490 Bond with a new piece of material and bring it to life and therefore reinvent 867 01:17:45,490 --> 01:17:49,250 herself as a contemporary singer, not just as an interpreter of older songs. 868 01:17:52,390 --> 01:17:54,570 I believe in prophecy. 869 01:17:56,840 --> 01:18:00,280 Some folks see things not everybody can see. 870 01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:06,660 Once in a while they pass the secret along to you and me. 871 01:18:07,340 --> 01:18:09,540 And I believe in miracles. 872 01:18:10,220 --> 01:18:15,140 I've been able to go around for some years now saying that Joan Baez sings 873 01:18:15,140 --> 01:18:17,160 of my songs pretty much every night. 874 01:18:17,440 --> 01:18:21,700 And there's a handful of us that can say that, that do what I do for a living. 875 01:18:21,740 --> 01:18:22,880 So that's pretty huge. 876 01:18:23,370 --> 01:18:26,690 Well, I can say that you wrote me one song specifically for me. 877 01:18:26,890 --> 01:18:28,930 Two. And God is God. 878 01:18:29,190 --> 01:18:32,970 God is God was written for you for that session. I had just finished it that 879 01:18:32,970 --> 01:18:35,730 morning when I came by and played it for you. I didn't know that, but I'm going 880 01:18:35,730 --> 01:18:39,970 to boast about it. Maybe someone's watching and wondering what I got. 881 01:18:42,490 --> 01:18:46,850 Maybe this is why I'm here on earth and maybe not. 882 01:18:48,050 --> 01:18:51,910 But I believe in God. 883 01:18:52,730 --> 01:18:54,550 And God is God. 884 01:18:55,890 --> 01:19:01,250 The same gratefulness I had for Dylan's early music is the same that I have for 885 01:19:01,250 --> 01:19:05,810 something like God is God. For me, because I haven't written for a long 886 01:19:05,810 --> 01:19:06,810 fills a gap. 887 01:19:08,570 --> 01:19:09,570 Man. 888 01:19:24,390 --> 01:19:26,310 I love to be on tour. 889 01:19:27,670 --> 01:19:31,970 Whenever a tour is over, it's, oh, hell, I wish it was going on longer because 890 01:19:31,970 --> 01:19:34,690 we really had the music together and had the friendship. 891 01:19:35,390 --> 01:19:36,390 I love it. 892 01:19:39,170 --> 01:19:45,950 One of the people in the world I'm most comfortable with is my boy. 893 01:19:46,930 --> 01:19:51,710 My relationship with Gabe has come to a place that probably not many people get 894 01:19:51,710 --> 01:19:52,710 to experience. 895 01:19:53,100 --> 01:19:55,120 to work with him and with music. 896 01:19:56,760 --> 01:20:02,180 And the people I've surrounded myself with, finally, I have the right ones. 897 01:20:02,580 --> 01:20:07,480 It took until I was in my 60s to do that, to find the right ones. 898 01:20:10,580 --> 01:20:14,520 When the band is good, which they are right now, we're just working in a unit. 899 01:20:18,140 --> 01:20:21,440 She's very serious about what she does, but she also... 900 01:20:21,850 --> 01:20:23,550 really loves to laugh. 901 01:20:24,590 --> 01:20:26,670 We have a great time together. 902 01:20:28,250 --> 01:20:33,190 I don't get stage fright anymore. I don't have to deal with things like 903 01:20:33,190 --> 01:20:37,170 quite cheerfully walk out on the stage and hi everybody and enjoy myself. 904 01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:58,720 There'll be no barricade then, and there'll be no wire through 905 01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:05,500 walls. We can wash all this blood from our hands, and all this hatred from 906 01:21:05,500 --> 01:21:06,540 our throats. 907 01:21:06,860 --> 01:21:12,820 And I believe that on that day, all the children of Abraham 908 01:21:12,820 --> 01:21:18,220 will lay down their thoughts forever into the 909 01:21:18,220 --> 01:21:20,140 land. 910 01:21:22,469 --> 01:21:29,070 Lay down their thoughts forever into roots of love. 911 01:21:37,390 --> 01:21:40,030 The spirit is absolutely still there. 912 01:21:40,710 --> 01:21:46,630 This is all you need to prove that life is worth living. I mean, this is really 913 01:21:46,630 --> 01:21:48,190 all you need. 914 01:22:11,690 --> 01:22:18,130 I saw Joe Hill last night, alive as you 915 01:22:18,130 --> 01:22:19,610 and me. 916 01:22:21,530 --> 01:22:26,510 Says I, but Joe, you're ten years dead. 917 01:22:26,730 --> 01:22:31,310 I never died, said he. 918 01:22:32,730 --> 01:22:36,610 I never died, said he. 919 01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:45,520 The copper bosses killed you, Joe. 920 01:22:45,800 --> 01:22:50,060 They shot you, Joe, says I. 921 01:22:51,460 --> 01:22:58,200 Takes more than guns to kill a man, says Joe. 922 01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:04,820 I didn't die, says Joe. I 923 01:23:04,820 --> 01:23:06,460 didn't die. 924 01:23:11,280 --> 01:23:17,420 standing there as big as life and smiling 925 01:23:41,160 --> 01:23:47,860 From San Diego up to Maine, in every mine 926 01:23:47,860 --> 01:23:54,540 and mill, where working men defend 927 01:23:54,540 --> 01:24:00,640 their rights, it's there you find your hill. 928 01:24:01,300 --> 01:24:02,920 It's there.